Dying by the sword? Pardon the Slayer allusion..but is metal being killed off by that which has also made it ever more available, successful and potentially lucrative?

Or is metal, like life in that it is sinusodal, bound to a perpetual flux of being and non being across a linear continuum?

a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. i want to believe in a natural ebb and flow across a linear continuum, but sometimes i wonder just how much more garbage can be "created" before it implodes and forms a supermassive black hole. as stated by Conservationist in another thread, maybe its time to let it all burn to the ground and start over from scratch.

sinusoidal*

Whoa, there's a $60 vocab word.

Perhaps someday it will be less trendy and all these pussies who make shit will find some other genre to latch onto and ruin.

Not the first time extreme metal became flooded with trends and crap, certainly won't be the last.

Hey, do you guys remember glam metal?

Yeah. There's always been crap. I choose column B.

In my view,

It's decaying in the same way everything decays.

Some pioneers make it, and then everyone else surges in with a "me too" mentality.

They're from the outside looking in. They understand what was made, but not how it was made.

So all they can do is clone the past and trick it out with silly random stuff to obscure the fact that they're just clones.

Punk died the same way.

The metal ethos is almost prophetic in this kind of way..."all things decay."
Perhaps in such a moment of despairing revelation, we adopt philosophies like nihilism--and maybe to a lesser extent "new school satanism." funny to see from afar, especially when you are as i am: from this world but not OF this world.

...I do not subscribe to your magazine; 46 chromosomes or not.

Just support the bands who had true artistic vision and the capabilities to do something with it. If Metal bands ceased to form from this point on, I wouldn't give it another thought. I'd just listen to the albums that made a significant impact, and write music exclusively for myself. No audience needed.

indeed. art for the artist. fuck everything else.

^

oh great another "metal is this" "metal is that" thread. listen, metal isn't dying as it ill never die. metal means different things to different people. some people call pantera metal while other don't consider them metal at all. just because there are a lot of shitty bands out there(see deathcore) nowadays that people call metal doesn't mean metal as a whole is dying. the music doesn't define you, you define the music.

oh great another "metal is what you want it to be" response to a metaphysical pondering of the current behavior and fate of metal.

by the way, you are missing the point about who calls what metal.
"well um pantera is this and i think that this is that, and that is this."

we arent debating which bands classify as part of this genre or that subgenre. your points are irrelevant. please re-read the prior threads and formulate a response that does not speak volumes about your intellectual prowess, in a negative sense.

ok so what the fuck are you trying to get across then?

Yeah, for some it's an uncomfortable subject and a dreadful question to raise.

alas the baseball hall of fame is full of people who swung and missed 7 out of 10 times.

still waiting for you to explain what exactly you are trying to get across here as a point.

that is my point and not for lack of explanation or linguistic disparity.

Just try not to wrestle with the disappointment you'd feel if metal was to disappear. The sun will still rise every morning, there will still be football games, fast food, and dick will always remain bro.

ok so you just made a thread with no reasoning behind it other than to boast your own ego by typing intelligently. okie dokie. just checking.

......aaaaaaaaaaaaand Charlie Hustle is what they call Pete Rose

Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame but NOOOOOO bar him for something he did as a MANAGER and NOT a player.

checkmate. extra y chromosome makes you want to eat PIZZA at shows.

Trends come and go. Some of the most classic metal albums ever came out during the grunge era when metal was no longer cool. So look forward to the day a new trend comes along and the mainstream says metal is dead.

i love pizza. i will eat pizza at shows if i'm hungry. is that a problem?

There's no reason to try to powder up your statement, dude.
Just come out and say it:
Metal cannot evolve anymore. It's reached it's capacity and just about every thing has been done with it.
In the realty of things, just about every kind of music has been done. Tell me, what else is there to do with music? Even avant-garde and experimental music doesn't phase me anymore.
It's time people realize that everything has been done before, regardless if one wants to admit it or not.

The musical cycle will rehash itself over and over; we'll start to see an influx of bands that sound like they're from an earlier generation. Hell, remember when Swing became popular again in 1999? What the hell happened to that? You never know what to expect with trends in all of music, not only metal.
Let's just hope metal stays alive for what it is and what it was. There is no progressing; only regressing. We have to move backwards in order to move forwards and filter out the shit.
One of the best things about music (and metal) are bands that sound unique. yes, they're not the only ones doing their style, but it's at least noticeable that they're THE ones doing it. A band can be unique within itself and its musicians, but the style they play is rarely unique anymore.

det som engang var....

on a lighter note, I heard Rich Bova has done everything in metal so i guess it means it's dead.

Finally someone posts the point of this discussion thats not hidden behind a wall of trying-to-make-myself-sound-intelligent typing.

i like Fenriz's approach. sitting alone in the back of a pub getting shitfaced and reminiscing about the way things used to be.

I blame Rich Bova for this....he's just that damn amazing that no one wants to challenge his awesomeness

But not cool to whom, exactly? I'd say around that time, the underground scene was still thriving with quality acts, whether the mainstream recognized it or not. Specific sub-genre's of metal were never really meant to be commercialized, but alas, it inevitably happened.

honestly, who gives a shit....like what you like...don't like what you don't like....metal or otherwise...popular or not

Metal is gay.

Not cool to the mainstream obviously. I think there are still alot of quality bands out there today. Hell the lineup of Maryland Deathfest was fantastic this year. You just have to cut through some of the crap out there.

Let's toos Brokencyde into this discussion.
HORRIBLE HORRIBLE BAND THAT I HATEMAILED LAST NIGHT, however what they are doing is (somewhat) unique. I mean how many fucking loser kids do you know are combining those kinds of music? ABSOLUTE SHIT, but somewhat (and I repeat SOMEWHAT) unqiue in their own right. I am not praising them, just accepting their horrible way of protraying two horrible types of music.

toos? what the fuck is that? I meant to type add but toos came out. Fuck I need a coffee..

maybe you meant toss?

Yeah, but the best MDF performances were from the originators and a few others who have remained active for years, and already established themselves.

Just because somethings original doesn't make it good. Even Led Zeppelin ripped off all of their songs.

I'd rather pay attention to the music I enjoy than dwell on stuff I generally avoid in the first place.

Less time pondering what the future brings, more time creating what you want the future to be.

why are you so hung up on thinking im trying to sound or appear intelligent? do you know me? if you did you might think otherwise.

the point of this conversation was to explore what might be happening with metal and life in general...if the two can even be correlated. why shouldnt they be, if life is art and art is life, to some extent.

any astute minded metal head can see that things are watered down right now, which prompts the even more savvy metal head to ponder "gee, are we on the upstroke of the sinusode and headed for something good (maybe not original but something that will herald and uphold to the tenants of metal when it was truly metal.) or are we still on the down stroke headed to things of even greater milk-toast like substance.
..still think im "trying" to sound smart?

you came in talking about pantera and how you think "what metal is" is relative and subjective at best..decent points but not entirely relevant to the discussion. arillius chimes in with something logical and what do you do: fall in line and adopt his points rather than develop your own idea relative to the discussion at hand. so while agreeing with his point, you unknowingly and obliquely make mine, whilst validating a portion of Conservationist's fine point: There will always be those on the outside, looking in.

Never was trying to rag on ya brah, but by the same token, I couldn't help use you as an example, to make my point.

Shoulda listened to Admiral Ackbar when he warned you..

/thread

The future is bound for failure.

After catching the Summer Slaughter show in Hartford last night, it's painfully obvious that the oversaturation / dying-off of the early 90s is being repeated. Oversaturation always leads to a diluting which leads to accessibility/availability which naturally panders to a lowest common denominator. Which is where you get bands like Born Of Osiris and Winds Of Plague. In other words, BLAME SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA[\B].

I really like the point Aril made about regression. Too many bands and fans mistake both dilution+combination of styles/genres and outright masturbation+absurdity as something "progressive" or innovative. I'm sorry, but your General Tso's ice cream tastes like shit.

I could go on and on and on.

PS: "Affliction presents Summer Slaughter" ??? Really???

Someone does not understand how to make some things bold, others not.

hardly. denial is not a river in egypt. just because you dont wanna "dwell" on something doesnt mean we are dwelling.

your craft does not exist in a vaccum. it is inextricably linked with the past present and future.

Metal is cocaine.

true, but why should it matter to you that bands suck? or even that those bands are popular? how does that effect your enjoyment of music you like?

I'm not trying to be an asshole...it just seems foolish to me to worry about shit that shouldn't matter to an individual's enjoyment of music

One thing I think is somewhat destroying metal is the production.
Some bands now are just so overproduced it's not even funny. I can't listen to metal that has the production of modern-day pop. It loses it's atmosphere and feeling when it's overproduced.
I guess an example would be newer Krisiun. Crushing songs and riffs, but I can't listen to more than one song in a sitting because the production turns me off.
If we're going to regress in one area in metal, I hope it's production and sound-quality. It's getting to the point where metal has lost its willingness to sound gritty.

Also, not sure if you guys are familiar with the German band Equilibrium, but I can't listen to them. Production is so crystal clear for their style it makes me want to puke.

I don't know what to say, I have no interest in trying to be the dr. Phil of the metal scene. I just do what I've always done since I was a lad: enjoy listening/playing/seeing metal. I feel like all of this sewper deep conversing about what people feel couldve been replaced with some woodshedding and sharing their idea of what metal should be.

Put yer guitar where yer mouth is, perhaps.

I'd like to make a point that I find it amusing when people get offended if you don't like their band or you don't support newer acts. Personally, I don't hate any bands, and if I don't enjoy your music, I simply won't listen to it. I may have been concerned with knowing every single underground act in my early teens, which I did benefit from; for it allowed me to sift through the piles of garbage to find the true diamonds in the rough. I love doom, black metal, death metal but I don't feel the need to worship or support every band that comes out of the scene. If you're just some band playing substandard Darkthrone riffs, I'm naturally going to throw on Under a Funeral Moon and not pay attention to you.

Lol

note to self: stop writing substandard Darkthrone riffs

Is that an admission of guilt? Haha.

nah, I try not to write stuff like that. by no means am I the best guitar player or musician on this board, but I can tell a good riff from a bad one.

Aesthetics are key.

Blue without porphyria and dysentery you have no parasitic. Woodshed all u want.

That's usually my argument for not listening to something 'new' - ]If you're just some band playing substandard X riffs, I'm naturally going to throw on Y and not pay attention to you.

off topic real quick: darkwor, when will you guys be ready to play out?

I know when I was in my teens and playing death metal, my band was collectively concerned with writing material that WE wanted to hear. I never had any aspirations about making a profit off of our music, or gaining a fanatical fan base. We mainly got booked for hardcore shows, kids moved, and death metal fans from abroad corresponded with us. For me, that simply sufficed. If people liked my band, hey, awesome! If you didn't, I certainly lost no sleep over it.

As is common practice at the Webster, they had a ton of locals playing on a second stage in a room off the main merch area. Between bands or during some of the more insufferable ones (I'm lookin at you, Born Of Osiris), I'd venture over to see what was going on. And just as quickly venture out.

I can't think of a greater sin than encouraging mediocrity.

THREAD

-continues woodshedding-

Technically, now - we're heading Metal Thursday on July 16 and we worked out a long list of things to take care of before that, including our finished full-length which will be available at the show (and as a free download online - I'll post on RTTP as soon as it's ready). Needless to say we're all fucking psyched!

I agree^. I don't lose sleep over all the terrible shit that comes out, because IMHO there has been some really awesome stuff to come out in the last couple years, and I probably wouldn't have heard all of it if it wasn't trendy....

Metal is not the underground phenomenon it was in the early to mid 90's. Like what's already been mentioned, metal's production standards are more accessible to mainstream audiences. It's clean and loud. Not too many people want to hear the grittiness of metal anymore because they don't understand it. Just about everyone on this board loves the classic eras of metal and wants the current form of this genre of music to regress to the "old days".

To me, metal is the only type of music where fans are the most knowledgeable, discerning and can easily tell what the poser bands are. Unfortunately, it's the poser bands who get popular because they pander to an audience looking for the hits, so to say.

I too believe that the evolution of this music is done but we should just enjoy the masterpieces already given to us and not pay attention to the crappy bands. Maybe they'll die off and we'll have a resurgence in greatness.

and i agree that most "everything" has been done.. at least stylistically...but bands doing whatever style they do really well is what matters.

But regression will get us nowhere. Just because a band is playing low-fi underground metal-by-numbers, doesn't mean they will surpass or even recapture the original feeling of their progenitors. Everything in life is ephemeral, not everything was meant to last, so I'll continue to enjoy what I've been exposed to over the years.

Well, I don't mean regression as in a simplification of the sound or quality, just to the feeling and nostalgia. I guess that's what the Thrash revival was supposed to be I guess but it's not working.

i like a lot of the newer cleaner sounding stuff (ie. The Faceless).. which i catch shit for from my elitist friends. (ie. blue..whom i love dearly.) That doesn't mean i don't love the aforementioned "classic" metal, I do, and always will.

I think my only problem with the newer production standards is the sound of the drums. They don't sound like a human being plays them, just studio magic.

hello, I am drum triggers, have we met?

@darkwor - awesome man. I'm gonna have to catch you guys and would like to play a show (or many) with you guys in the near future at some point
@everyone else - one thing to ponder is how there is a huge difference in opinion between actual musicians and people who don't create the art, just respect it. What someone says is "good" , another can say it sucks.
Also, I hold high respect for very talented musicians that can play their instruments, but I hold even higher respect for every composer that can create music. There's a difference - but sometimes people can be both.

Live triggers still sound different then snazzy studio production. You can't grid them live.

I wholeheartedly agree

I know people use triggers now but it seems like EVERY drummer these days uses triggers, especially in the studio.

in before ouchdrummer gives his 2 cents on what you just said

it does seem that way

I tend to prefer a more organic sounding drum production, as well.

pop rock!

I heard if you say "triggers" into a mirror five times, ouchdrummer appears

Both sound good

woof