post by Lich_King at May 21,2010 9:53pm edited May 21,2010 9:54pm
Bullshyit. I absolutely don't understand what the Megadeth people hear in that stuff. It's not bad, but it's not close to competing. People that like Mechanix over The Four Horsemen are like those people that castrate themselves on the internet, I have no idea what their values are.
Everything that blog says is true. Megadeth only really has one terrible album risk. Metallica hasn't made anything even close to good in over 20 years.
post by DestroyYouAlot at May 22,2010 12:52am edited May 22,2010 12:52am
Bullshyit. I absolutely don't understand what the Megadeth people hear in that stuff. It's not bad, but it's not close to competing. People that like Mechanix over The Four Horsemen are like those people that castrate themselves on the internet, I have no idea what their values are.
Right. No one can argue Mechanix is better than Horsemen, Metallica was one step ahead on dynamics and consistent songwriting every step of the way for the first decade or so, although Megadeth was right behind them.
But the other side of the argument, as has been pointed out, Megadeth only did one shit album (Risk), then changed their minds. Metallica decided to make a career out of it starting with Load.
If I had to the opportunity to see Megadeth or Metallica live right now, there's no question I'd pick Megadeth, as would anyone else with working eardrums. But I also think the first five Metallica albums are unbeatable and probably won't ever be topped. So it really depends on how one asks the question.
i love metallica but really megadeth as a whole package is better.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 22,2010 2:02pm
Comparing Mechanix and Horsemen is pretty strong evidence arguing in favor of Megadeth, since whichever you prefer they're still BOTH MUSTAINE SONGS. Now how about we compare Phantom Lord or No Remorse to Mechanix/Horsemen?
Comparing Mechanix and Horsemen is pretty strong evidence arguing in favor of Megadeth, since whichever you prefer they're still BOTH MUSTAINE SONGS. Now how about we compare Phantom Lord or No Remorse to Mechanix/Horsemen?
Exactly.
Good point.
But at the same time, a side by side comparison of Kill Em' All or Killing Is My Business, whether in terms of tightness of the heavy riffs or in terms of dynamics in having more softer and melodic parts mixed in, is pretty clear cut.
To some extent though, it wasn't an even fight between the bands for the first several albums, in the sense that it wasn't Mustaine vs. Hetfield in terms of the melody and riff writing but rather it was often Mustaine vs. Hetfeld AND Burton AND sometimes Hammett as well. Burton's influence on not only the songs he co-wrote to but the way he influenced Hetfield's own songwriting when it comes to melody and harmony was its own major contribution.
Metallica is quite a ways better than Megadeth in my opinion. MEgadeth does have great songs, yes, but they are fewer in quantity to those of MEtallica's. Of course, when I hear a great song by Megadeth(i.e. Mechanix, Moto Psycho, Headcrusher, etc) it's impossible to play out due to chatchy fun-ness. Metallica songs occasionally suffer the danger of getting overplayed(i.e. The Unforgive, Hero Of The Day, Master Of Puppets), that danger doesn't mean much for me, since I don't often play things out.
MEgadeth does have great songs, yes, but they are fewer in quantity to those of MEtallica's.
Exactly - they had fewer good songs per good album, anyway (overall, by now there's no question Megadeth has put more good material out than Metallica cumulatively, since the latter hasn't made an effort in almost two decades) What I mean by per album is that there's not a song on the first five Metallica albums that I would ever skip, but despite the fact I think all the Megadeth albums but Risk are VERY VERY good, I can only count one Megadeth album I can say the same thing about as far as every song being excellent. Usually there was one or two that was just OK.
And "Hero of the Day" was worn out before the first time it was played. "Excuse me while I tend to how I feel" - what the fuck is that, Hetfield from any previous album would have kicked the shit out of anyone who suggested such a gay lyric.
Metallica is quite a ways better than Megadeth in my opinion. MEgadeth does have great songs, yes, but they are fewer in quantity to those of MEtallica's. Of course, when I hear a great song by Megadeth(i.e. Mechanix, Moto Psycho, Headcrusher, etc) it's impossible to play out due to chatchy fun-ness. Metallica songs occasionally suffer the danger of getting overplayed(i.e. The Unforgive, Hero Of The Day, Master Of Puppets), that danger doesn't mean much for me, since I don't often play things out.
You fail by saying Megadeth's great songs are Mechanix, MotoPsycho, and Head crusher. Those aren't even good Megadeth song's. Try In my Darkest hour, Tornado of souls, or Holy wars kid.
Will do, old timer. But I'll probably maintain my stance regardless. Never hurts to pirate more, though. >_>
Then don't give opinions about things you don't know about. I've seen both bands live a shit ton of times. When I saw Metallica at the garden last year they were boring and horrible. Megadeth at the Palladium two years ago was great.
Metallica is quite a ways better than Megadeth in my opinion. MEgadeth does have great songs, yes, but they are fewer in quantity to those of MEtallica's. Of course, when I hear a great song by Megadeth(i.e. Mechanix, Moto Psycho, Headcrusher, etc) it's impossible to play out due to chatchy fun-ness. Metallica songs occasionally suffer the danger of getting overplayed(i.e. The Unforgive, Hero Of The Day, Master Of Puppets), that danger doesn't mean much for me, since I don't often play things out.
Unforgiven, Hero of the Day, Motopsycho, Headcrusher, ....... do you actually listen to metal at all?
Amazing that you like the worst shit from two of the best bands.
post by Spaldino at May 23,2010 12:20am
Rust in Peace > Master of Puppets. Hands down. i prefer And Justice For All over MoP... but take Megadeth's best album and put it up against Metallica's "best" album, and it is very clear. more aggression, more variation, better riffing, BETTER DRUMMING, a more thrilling listen... Rust in Peace alone smokes Metallica's entire catalogue.
Comparing Mechanix and Horsemen is pretty strong evidence arguing in favor of Megadeth, since whichever you prefer they're still BOTH MUSTAINE SONGS.
Wow, really? So Hetfield & co. had no influence whatsoever on their version, they're just both Dave Mustaine's vision of the song. The entire point is that Metallica polished a meh song into a monster, while Dave released his pure vision of his song and it was merely... meh.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 23,2010 2:26am
Hetfield doesn't influence anyone. People influence HIM. That's why he wrote speed/thrash with mustaine, Epic riffs with Burton, Shitty blues rock with Hammett, and now back to striding thrash/rock with Trujilio onboard.
James Hetfield is a gigantic fucking SPONGE. It's got something to do with the pox scars.
Hetfield doesn't influence anyone. People influence HIM. That's why he wrote speed/thrash with mustaine, Epic riffs with Burton, Shitty blues rock with Hammett, and now back to striding thrash/rock with Trujilio onboard.
So who influenced him to do St. Anger, a venerial disease?
Actually, if we are to believe the band's version of things (including ex-member Newsted) they all pretty much agree that before Load, Hetfield was completely uncompromising when it came to control and final say over the notes that would be in the songs; Hetfield himself says that Load was when he started opening things up and not worrying so much - lazy fuck, how did that turn out? Only ruined the best band ever, fucking douchebag.
this argument is good, i suppose, but it's based on the fact that megadeth is better than metallica, which is wrong, so in the grand scheme of things, it sucks.
when he breaks down point by point which bands do which things, the only clear cut "victory" for megadeth is the hair thing, which is a stupid point that only the people with a remedial understanding of music/metal would make. the point in the end is null. it doesn't matter what you look like. it's music. don't be stupid.
yes, load and reload came out and so did st. anger... while metallica was going berserk all over the world between all that, trying something different, dave mustaine was doing bullshit, finding god, and refusing to play on the same bill as rotting christ. lame. their new albums suck too. worse than metallica's too, on a very large scale. i'd take st. anger over the world needs a hero. sure it sounds a LITTLE like slipknot, but at least it doesn't sound like every other lame thrash band from the 80's like everything megadeth has.
and james hetfield is easily the best guitarist of all them. hands down. he just doesn't play fast ALL the time, though his solos are all the best that metallica has. figure it out... he also wrote motorbreath.
better than the rest of the songs that mustaine wrote for whatever band.
Metallica was untouchable until Burton's fall. Megadeth has consistently better material and RUST IN PEACE. Lars Ulrich has always sucked. No one under 21 allowed in this thread.
post by ShadowSD at May 23,2010 8:54am edited May 23,2010 8:55am
You may work hard all your life to do so, but you will never live down the stupidity of this sentence. There is something seriously wrong with you. Consult a doctor.
sure it sounds a LITTLE like slipknot
Any justification that begins with this is doomed. Hang your head in shame.
Hetfield doesn't influence anyone. People influence HIM. That's why he wrote speed/thrash with mustaine, Epic riffs with Burton, Shitty blues rock with Hammett, and now back to striding thrash/rock with Trujilio onboard.
James Hetfield is a gigantic fucking SPONGE. It's got something to do with the pox scars.
That may be so, but it doesn't change that he wrote better songs.
Hetfield doesn't influence anyone. People influence HIM. That's why he wrote speed/thrash with mustaine, Epic riffs with Burton, Shitty blues rock with Hammett, and now back to striding thrash/rock with Trujilio onboard.
So who influenced him to do St. Anger, a venerial disease?
Bob Rock and the press/fans. St. Anger is what happens when Hetfield writes metal without anyone metal to sponge off.
Actually, if we are to believe the band's version of things (including ex-member Newsted) they all pretty much agree that before Load, Hetfield was completely uncompromising when it came to control and final say over the notes that would be in the songs; Hetfield himself says that Load was when he started opening things up and not worrying so much - lazy fuck, how did that turn out? Only ruined the best band ever, fucking douchebag.
Hetfield DID do all the writing. However, as I said, his influences are pretty clear on the first four albums - Mustaine and Burton. Go watch the video on youtube of Robert Trujilio playing flamenco guitar in the studio. Hetfield walks in the room, listens for three seconds, and picks up his guitar to play back a perfect imitation of what Trujilio was doing. Hetfield is a sponge and an imitator. I argue that he has never had an original idea before that he didn't suck out of someone elses's creative nether.
Although, since most music is just a jumble of any artists own influences, I'm sure this argument could be used against anyone.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 23,2010 12:49pm
And whichever of you just said Hetfield is the best guitarist and plays the best solos is retarded. That's not even something you could debate, man.
Sorry about that, the facts are: the first four Metallica albums.
... and Rust in Peace destroys them all. nothing Metallica will ever do can top Rust in Peace. Metallica was more popular and people generally tend to ride the huts of the bigger bandwagon more blindly than anything else.
first 4 Metallica albums were... really good. To be honest, i really don't even count Kill em All... it's... not Metallica. they made that very clear when they released Ride the Lightning.
Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets, and And Justice For All... are legendary and i like them all very much but Rust in Peace showed what true musicianship can accomplish and they out-played Metallica several times over on that album. Song structures, musicianship, speed, variety, and originality.
I would LOVE to see Kirk Hammet try to play Tornado of Souls without breaking down and crying like a barbie girl bitch. It wont happen.
The last 3 Megadeth albums are almost better than Metallica's entire library of music. that alone says a lot.
Rust in Peace is very good, I'd say it competes with the first four Metallica albums and is perhaps better than Ride The Lightning. That's not good enough.
post by slag nli at May 23,2010 1:14pm
Just sayin.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 23,2010 1:15pm
Rust in Peace is very good, I'd say it competes with the first four Metallica albums and is perhaps better than Ride The Lightning. That's not good enough.
Sounds to me like you just don't listen to much Megadeth.
They were my favorite band for a few years when I got over my initial Metallica phase when I was 17. Then, as time went on and I discovered other bands, I looked back and found Megadeth wanting. Metallica, not so much.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 23,2010 1:47pm
I'd disagree heavily, but that's how opinions work. Rust in Peace is beginning to end better than anything Metallica ever did, and is a far better example of thrash metal than anything Metallica ever did. In addition, as Spaldino pointed out, Endgame, United Abominations, and even the System Has Failed are still great examples of thrash with Endgame being right up there near Rust in Peace, while Metallica has continued to flounder for almost 20 years.
I admit both bands are crap. I can't stand anything after And Justice for All, and some megadeth was watery (youthanasia, cryptic writing, world needs a hero) while some downright sucked (RISK).
Metallica can't even PRETEND to be the band that wrote Master of Puppets anymore. They're sad, they're tired, they're not angry (or at least, not for the right reasons anymore). Meanwhile, Mustaine has not stopped ripping out THRASH records for the entire duration.
For me it's not about Megadeth vs. Metallica. It's every fucking metal band that has stayed true to what they started with, while metallica ran off in pursuit of image, popularity, MTV, and album sales. They CONSTANTLY make stupid statements about how you just can't do the same thing and keep it fresh for 20 years. Meanwhile Gamma Ray/Helloween, Blind Guardian, Megadeth, Iron Maiden and Accept/UDO have continued to do EXACTLY that for the same amount of time, as have many others.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 23,2010 1:48pm
edit: I admit both bands have RELEASED crap. Not both bands ARE crap. STONED
It's every fucking metal band that has stayed true to what they started with, while metallica ran off in pursuit of image, popularity, MTV, and album sales.
Agreed 1000% on the overall point - although if Metallica's goal was to pursue more popularity, MTV, and album sales, it was the biggest failure of commercial strategy in the history of the music industry, given the potential wasted.
Consider, Metallica's first five albums each sold more than the last, but not only that; each sold four to five times as much as the previous one, almost like clockwork.
However, every album beginning with their image change/logo change in 1996 not only broke that pattern, but none ever sold anywhere close to the Black Album ever again. Load did great the first week because of all the anticipation for the first album in five years, but then went way downhill relative to Black, which stayed in the Top 200 Albums for two and a half years after its release. The band's album sales for future releases never recovered anywhere near to what they had been, nor did they recover their upward trend, and to this day it's the first five albums that still continue to sell moreso than the stuff they came out with afterwards.
If their intent was to make money with the change in style, they are the biggest failures as whores ever.
post by ShadowSD at May 23,2010 3:44pm edited May 23,2010 3:47pm
Although, since most music is just a jumble of any artists own influences, I'm sure this argument could be used against anyone.
Yes - and I think in the case of Hetfield, if he was capable of not only writing something in the style of somebody he meets but also something in that style that the other person wouldn't have come up with on their own - then that reaches a certain threshold of originality, because he's adding his own tweaks on it, not just regurgitating like a machine (in which case the earlier Metallica and Megadeth albums would have sounded far more similar than they did).
Of course, I'm only referring to Hetfield in the old days. The new Hetfield DOES regurgitate like a machine: Hey Hey Hey. At no point listening to Burton-era Metallica did I ever think for a second that Fat Albert would be in the cards.
And whichever of you just said Hetfield is the best guitarist and plays the best solos is retarded. That's not even something you could debate, man.
The person who wrote that IS retarded, although moreso for the assertion than Motorbreath is better than any Megadeth song ever released - WTF? I mean, Motorbreath's a good tune, but come on...
For Hetfield on solos, I think it's again what era of Hetfield we're talking about. If he means anything Hetfield has done recently, that is indeed retarded.
When it comes to the older stuff, though, a lot of people don't know this, but he's responsible writing for the melodic guitar solos in the middle of Master of Puppets, Orion, To Live is To Die, Nothing Else Matters, and a few others. Those solos are some of my all-time favorites, even though there's no shredding at all involved.
However, that was in the old days when Hetfield's solos were far and between, and every note had to be perfect in his eyes to be on a Metallica album. When Load came along and he stopped giving a shit, he started to do solos a LOT more, but EVERY SINGLE ONE since that time has sucked donkey balls.
Between him and the wah pedal junkie, I haven't heard a good Metallica solo in as long as I haven't heard a satisfying Metallica album.
I agree with a lot you say, but as far as solos... nothing Hetfield or Hammett has ever done can touch what Mustaine is capable of on his own a guitarist. Not to mention his insane arsenal of sidemen, culminating in Chris Broderick.
nice and easy way to seperate the noobs from people who know their shit. Megadeth is for the real people, people who have moved out their parents house and have struggled. Metallica is a snotty brat who runs home when life gets hard.
Just got End Game, man, wish I didn't wait, fucking SICK
You may work hard all your life to do so, but you will never live down the stupidity of this sentence. There is something seriously wrong with you. Consult a doctor.
sure it sounds a LITTLE like slipknot
Any justification that begins with this is doomed. Hang your head in shame.
sorry dude, didn't realize i was wrong i take it all back. mustaine is god.
eat one faggot.
i'm talking about audio quality as opposed to actual song writing. the best selling "metal records" of the 90's were done by ross robinson and that was the jib that they were cutting for. you can sound like slipknot and not write like slipknot.
and i would definitely take st. anger over any of the newer megadeth stale bullshit bonanzas. st. anger might not be great but it bores me less.
And whichever of you just said Hetfield is the best guitarist and plays the best solos is retarded. That's not even something you could debate, man.
sure you can... he just plays with a more melodic style than kirk or mustaine. both of the last two are almost the same really, one faster than the other obviously. one guy uses the wah too much, the other does the same thing each time he starts to rip a lead. who cares. i prefer a different style. maybe i'm the one that doesn't know what i'm talking about because i don't like megadeth and i like motorbreath.
that picture with the armani bag is depressing though. must be nice to have the cash, but if i were having that much cheddar i'd be buying 1956 strats and a toilet made of gold.
post by ShadowSD at May 24,2010 9:01am edited May 24,2010 4:45pm
i'm talking about audio quality as opposed to actual song writing. the best selling "metal records" of the 90's were done by ross robinson and that was the jib that they were cutting for.
The best selling metal records of the 90's are NOT nu-metal. Top metal selling records of that decade would include the Black Album, the Use Your Illusion Records, Countdown to Extinction, etc; it's a long time before you get to Ross Robinson records. Heck, even from '93 on, when MTV had virtually passed a law not to play any metal before midnight unless it was GNR or Metallica, metal albums (actual metal albums) STILL did better than nu-metal albums that were subsequently released; in the mid-nineties, Youthanasia hit the charts at #4 and Far Beyond Driven debuted at #1, and considering both were with minimal to no radioplay or MTV, this was really something. To the extent that the nu-metal sound sold at all, it's because it was the only kind of metal allowed airplay in the late 90's, and thus the only kind of metal most of the new kids coming up even had heard about.
The "sound quality" of the recordings you refer to is basically how noisy of a train wreck can we make this. On top of the bad writing in nu-metal, this recording style just compounded to the insult to actual metal, which had often been characterized as noise by ignorant people over the decades; now the production AND writing in nu-metal was validating their misguided points of view.
St. Anger utilizing such a production style was especially insulting because they had more money and time to utilize than perhaps any album ever released by anyone, and instead it sounds like a band playing in a tiny cement room. There IS a way to produce an album super super raw and make it sound incredible - it's called And Justice For All, not recording a cement room with a single radio shack microphone then paying Bob Rock ten million dollars for the privilege. That was an insult to every band that currently works and records. It's ironic that you mentioned spending money on a golden toilet if you had plenty of dough, because that's exactly what St. Anger is, an overpriced shitbowl.
And whichever of you just said Hetfield is the best guitarist and plays the best solos is retarded. That's not even something you could debate, man.
sure you can... he just plays with a more melodic style than kirk or mustaine. both of the last two are almost the same really, one faster than the other obviously. one guy uses the wah too much, the other does the same thing each time he starts to rip a lead.
Really? You should start giving some examples, because you really seem to talk out of your ass a lot.
I'd like you to tell me a few examples in songs where Mustaine repeats himself often, or re-uses ideas. I'd also like to see ANY SINGLE example you can give of similarity between Hammett and Mustaine's style.
You can't just make shit up and think it makes you look like you did your homework. It's so damned evident you don't even know the material you're talking about. Bad taste is one thing, and can be tolerated. Talking out your bum-hole is tougher to justify.
Here's some examples of Mustaine's solo breaks, spanning Megadeth's entire career. Feel free to pick out a few of those examples from here for me, so I can see how similar Dave and Kirk are, and how completely unoriginal and un-melodic Dave's solos are compared to a guy who solod twice on his first 5 albums.
The guy has surrounded himself with top notch talent for 30 years, and killed himself to expand and keep pace with players like Poland, Friedman, Broderick, Young, and Drover when he could easily sit back and riff and let any one of those guys take all the leads. The man went from being the LEAD guitarist in Metallica to getting even better and better over the years, and you're comparing him to the retarded monkey they ordered to mimic the first bar of every one of Mustaines solos in the studio.
I can't stand Mahavishnu Orchestra. Doesn't make Kerry King a better guitarist than John McLaughlin.
You're welcome to prefer either band, but don't be a retard and try to say Mustaine isn't an obviously better technician and player than anyone in Metallica.
post by ArrowHead Logged In .... Or NOT! at May 24,2010 3:19pm
Any guitar player that Megadeth had playing leads (Mustiane included) buried Kirk Hammet.
Any drummer that Megadeth had buried that shit bag Lars that could only do a double kick for a certain amount of time, and that's it. LOL.
Lyric content, hands down, gotta give that one to Megadeth.
Vocals, that on how they are sung, I liked old Hetfield vocals (Metallica's 1st 4 albums better) but since then Hetfield has been sucking too much cock and it shows when he has tried to sing anything since.
Bass playing, have to give that one to Cliff Burton. Sucks that he died.
Right now, I can't be bothered to waste my money on anything Metallica puts out on CD, never mind them live.
If I had to the opportunity to see Megadeth or Metallica live right now, there's no question I'd pick Megadeth, as would anyone else with working eardrums.
post by AndrewBastard at May 24,2010 4:03pm
just read this and laughed my ass off....such a funny writing style. I wish i wasnt on my phone so i could copy paste my fav quotes....dom lawson the author is a panzerbastard fan and reviewed us in metal hammer recently.
Heard the local version of WAAF play there "mandatory metallica" today. They played Fight Fire With Fire, Nothing Else Matters and one of the new songs. The progression into shit couldn't be more evident.
Then, I played a shuffle of Megadeth. They won. Anything from the forst to the last album.
gimme foo gimme fie gimme gaba jaba zye oooo yeah
post by ShadowSD at May 27,2010 9:47am edited May 27,2010 9:48am
They should have changed the name when they changed the logo. That has always been my argument.
They went from being Metallica to being a bad Metallica cover band, the kind that plays a bar and you can't wait for their horrible originals to end so they'll play something decent again. The fact that newer songs occasionally include nuggets of good buried in with all the crap only makes it more frustrating when they still attempt to call themselves Metallica, a standard of which they have long not been worthy.
post by ShadowSD at May 27,2010 10:02am edited May 27,2010 10:04am
I'd also like to see ANY SINGLE example you can give of similarity between Hammett and Mustaine's style.
While I agree with much of what you say and disagree with the person you're debating with, there were certainly similarities between the two's lead guitarwork - at least at one time.
When you watch a clip of Hammett soloing back in Exodus, he was already doing a lot of the quick runs down the pentatonic scale that made the backbone of the original Mustaine solos in the Kill 'Em All songs; Hammett was able to learn, play, and even add to those solos in an incredibly short time to record the actual album because he was already comfortable playing in that style, and I would argue improved them with extra melodic touches in the right spots while keeping true to what was good in the solos to begin with. I think it could also be argued that not only were their styles somewhat similar at the time, but that Hammett was clearly superior as a lead guitarist back then.
Of course, that was a LONG time ago, and as you've pointed out correctly, Mustaine has been challenging and improving and expanding his playing ability year after year, whereas Hammett has made NO EFFORT in almost twenty years to expand at all. It's just wah wah wah blah blah blah, and it's such a steep fall in my opinion, as old Hammett solos told a story, had a great sense of melody, and were always somewhat different and interesting song to song; then, all of a sudden, they ALL sucked, beginning with Load, which had only two actual Hammett solos for the entire album and they were both painfully predictable wah solos.
